Sai. I think spirits stay around, at least for a little while according to Shintoism. The story doesn't seem very close to this idea for me. I think Buddhism had come to Japan in Sai's time, at least to the ruling classes, and there was belief in an afterlife (Heaven is mentioned in 'The pillow book').
Uh no. I just hung out with a real Japanese lady for the weekend. We talked a lot of religion, both western and eastern. She laughed heartly when I explained monotheism.
The short version is: everything you think you know about eastern religion, chuck it now. It's all different, and a Japanese person will laugh at you when you open your mouth about it.
Yes, Buddhism had come to Japan before the Heian period.
Shintoism doesn't talk of "a while", things just 'are'. In Shintoism Sai became a kami after he died in the Heian period.
The Buddhism that is practiced in Japan is quite different from any other. The fact that they talk of Heaven (in the translation) doesn't mean they believe in it.
I find it left very open (what happens to Sai), and Ive certainly not noticed any reference to afterlife in Hikaru no Go itself. We also see a great deal of that bird after Sai disapears. What is he supposed to symbolise.
The Pillow Book is cheeky about many things, including religion, so its hard to tell what the people actually believed.
When Kubawara senses 'something' around Hikaru that is Sai. This also seem relevant.
I can't tell when the Pillow Book is really joking and when Ive missed the point because all my references are different. It has a lot of notes with it.
Buddhism had arrived into Japan in the Heian period as it was taken from China along with a lot of other things that they modelled their society on. I've read works from the period and they sometimes made pilgrimage to various Buddhist temples.
I know that one belief from Japanese Buddhism of that period is that if you have earthly desires or regrets then it's harder for you when you die and your soul will linger. I have no idea about any short of afterlife but the idea of your soul lingering because of the earthly desires is in a lot of literature from the Heian period.
You have to remember that they took Buddhism from the Chinese and then would have changed it to suit themselves. I'm not sure or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if the Buddhism practised in the Heian period isn't the same as Buddhism in Japan now in which case what were those original beliefs that Sai would have practiced?
On top of that, you must remember that the Japanese, then and now, are very different from westerners. And while we use some of the same words, like 'god', 'heaven' & 'soul', they mean something fundamentally different in the east then the west.
I'm very cautious of asking this kind of question. And I generally avoid religion as a topic on internet. Tonight is an exception:)
Another thing. There are bits of the English scantilation where Sai addresses himself to God or mentions God. In the same pages in the French translation the text uses the plural (dieux). Now, is this becuase the original Japanese word was ambiguous or has one of these versions been 'localised'? Otherwise why should 'French' Sai be polythsist and 'English' Sai monotheist.
Japan has 800 million 'gods'. Yes, just as my Japanese friend laughed at the notion of a single god, we westerners laugh at 800 million gods. Neither of our cultures allow us to to anything else.
After our discussion, my friend decided to refer to the Japanese gods as 'kami' and not translate the word in her lectures.
Interesting that in french it would be plural. Maybe the translator thinks of the Japanese gods as being part of a pantheon religion, like the Greek or the Norse gods.
Not only does this come down to language differences (Japanese to English vs Japanese to French) but also it comes down to individual translators. Did they completely understand what was meant? Is that how they felt the meaning was best implied? When I looked at the first 'official' manga translations of Naruto and Iruka-sensei is called 'Master Iruka' I wonder what the hell that translator was thinking! 'Master Iruka' indeed!!! To completely understand you'd have to go to the original texts, translations can only explain so much unless you want to slog through a lot of footnotes or the whole thing becomes unwieldy! ^_^
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timeasmymeasure
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:02 pm (UTC)Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:18 pm (UTC)The short version is: everything you think you know about eastern religion, chuck it now. It's all different, and a Japanese person will laugh at you when you open your mouth about it.
Yes, Buddhism had come to Japan before the Heian period.
Shintoism doesn't talk of "a while", things just 'are'. In Shintoism Sai became a kami after he died in the Heian period.
The Buddhism that is practiced in Japan is quite different from any other.
The fact that they talk of Heaven (in the translation) doesn't mean they believe in it.
I just dunno.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:28 pm (UTC)The Pillow Book is cheeky about many things, including religion, so its hard to tell what the people actually believed.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:39 pm (UTC)I'll have to look into the pillow book soon....
Shintoism doesn't talk of afterlife. So that would fit. It does talk of dreaming about deceased people, so that also fits.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:55 pm (UTC)I can't tell when the Pillow Book is really joking and when Ive missed the point because all my references are different. It has a lot of notes with it.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 10:02 pm (UTC)copious notes with the Pillow Book: I'll bet!
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 09:59 pm (UTC)I know that one belief from Japanese Buddhism of that period is that if you have earthly desires or regrets then it's harder for you when you die and your soul will linger. I have no idea about any short of afterlife but the idea of your soul lingering because of the earthly desires is in a lot of literature from the Heian period.
You have to remember that they took Buddhism from the Chinese and then would have changed it to suit themselves. I'm not sure or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if the Buddhism practised in the Heian period isn't the same as Buddhism in Japan now in which case what were those original beliefs that Sai would have practiced?
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 10:06 pm (UTC)Really, my weekend was very inlightning!
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 10:31 pm (UTC)Another thing. There are bits of the English scantilation where Sai addresses himself to God or mentions God. In the same pages in the French translation the text uses the plural (dieux). Now, is this becuase the original Japanese word was ambiguous or has one of these versions been 'localised'? Otherwise why should 'French' Sai be polythsist and 'English' Sai monotheist.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-01 10:40 pm (UTC)Yes, just as my Japanese friend laughed at the notion of a single god, we westerners laugh at 800 million gods.
Neither of our cultures allow us to to anything else.
After our discussion, my friend decided to refer to the Japanese gods as 'kami' and not translate the word in her lectures.
Interesting that in french it would be plural. Maybe the translator thinks of the Japanese gods as being part of a pantheon religion, like the Greek or the Norse gods.
Re: The End
Date: 2010-09-02 02:22 am (UTC)