* It is, it is. But you know, what with Ogata and Kuwabara, you kind of have to wonder about this manga anyhow.
*When the pro exam participants were talking about the strain put on them by work, and school/university, and travel etc., I had to think that I'm not sure that I would do well in that general environment of stress. I'm fairly certain that I would have had difficulties focusing myself enough to deal with getting into university without sliding into the lack of concern that is Hikaru's natural state of being. I would have had anxiety issues en masse.
* I used to absolutely loathe Ochi, but with greater understanding of psychology (and kids in general), I just sort of want to give him a hug and tell him to simmer down. He's so intense and takes everything very personally, a sure sign of immaturity. Akira provides a great contrast to that, and I *do* think he's quite mature in a way, but a big part of his tolerance is his almost exclusive focus on igo and on Hikaru.
I used to know someone a lot like Ochi, and in a competitive environment I've unfortunately displayed some of his less charming traits myself. SIGH. I was a kid, but still.
Psyching Isumi out was pretty evil though. I'm not even sure he fully understood what he was doing, he's so focused on himself.
* AAAAAH ISUMI. *pulls at hair*
* Oh the psychology of this is so interesting from both sides, aaaaah ... [I'm live commenting, can you tell? ^^]
* I'm probably reading too much into it, but I find Hikaru's relationship to his parents a bit troubling.
* Nope, Ochi definitely doesn't see the effect he's having. Boy needs some sensitivity training. Or training to hone that skill to psych people out, depending on the direction he wants to go.
* Whoo, an angry Isumi is an AWESOME Isumi.
* Ochi's family environment is clearly responsible for his attitude and the pressure he puts on himself. Brings back memories.
* NAAASEEE, YOU'RE MY FAVOURITE. (Sometimes. ^^)
*Aaaand now, one of my top favourite scenes in the entire series. *beams* *deep sigh* OH AKIRA. WE ALL WANT TO KNOW.
* [nods] Japanese schools are already so stressful, especially for those studying for high school/college entrance exams. I can't imagine being an insei on top of it. Truly, Hikaru's couldn't-give-a-fuck attitude is the way to go.
* I want to give Ochi some cookies and maybe a trip to the spa - the poor kid is so intense and so self-focused. Hanging out with Hikaru would probably be good for him, if it didn't break his brain first.
* Isuuuuuuumiiiiiiiii
* We talked about Hikaru and his parents a post or so ago... he's so detached and uncommunicative and, I mean. Sometimes that happens! But they seem like decent people and he's 14, it makes me uneasy.
Hikaru's family is frankly an *issue* to me. His parents don't know anything about what he does, what he likes, what he worries about. And they exhibit only very cursory efforts to find out. Certainly his dad never shows up, and his mom - I'm not a fan of hers. She has shown a total lack of confidence in Hikaru, she doesn't know him *at all*. It's like to her, he's an adult with a young adult's rights and the simplicity of thought and the emotional needs of a four-year-old, if that.
Hikaru grows up a lot in the course of the series, and it looks like his parents missed that happening.
It's like the idea that every teenager has, that their parents don't understand them, is explicitly true for Hikaru.
Hikaru's Dad is perpetually absent. I have a feeling that this is deliberate; not just because many families are like this, but it contrast with Sai who is continually present.
Its very understated but I don't think its an accident. This said, Sai's parenting skills are unlikely to be well developed or relevant to the 21st century.
I was thinking the same thing... That maybe Hikaru's father's misisng to make room for Sai as a guidance figure. Then again, if I understand Japanese society correctly, there's already room for that in the form of homeroom (and other) teachers, so maybe it wasn't necessary just for that.
Onkoona makes the point that it's not unusual for someone with Hikaru's Dad's job be be gone all the time (and I'm not sure Hikaru sees Sai as a male role model), but it still seems a bit odd - maybe because there are few absent fathers in shonen manga? Who aren't dead, that is.
Mmm. There is definitely a disconnect there, but I've always seen it as going both ways - Hikaru has very little respect for his mother (a little more for his grandfather, but not much) and rarely tells her anything (even/specially Very Important things, like the pro exam). His mother assumes that he's doing nothing special and does not closely monitor his activities (or show much interest in his life, really. Unless there are multiple scenes off page where she asks him how his day was and he brushes her off - we see so little of his home life, it's hard to know if she's genuinely disinterested or just giving him space).
It leaves me with a million questions:
* What does his dad do? What's he like?
* What does his mom do all day?
* Is this behavior new or was it in place before Hikaru started playing go?
* What came first, Hikaru's disinterest in his home life or his parents' hands-off approach to parenting?
We don't know much about Hikaru before he meets Sai - he's out of pocket money (allowance was cut off? I need to go back and check), he doesn't have many friends (he doesn't like Akari much, but she's the only one he spends any time with), he doesn't have any real drive or desires.
My first thought is that his Dad's a real asshole (but we don't get any concern from his grandfather?). My second is that Hotta wasn't interested in talking about his family life so we don't see much of it (but that kind of shoddy storytelling isn't like her). My third is that he's like someone I know, eternally punishing his mother for a past transgression (real or imagined) and resentful of his absent father.
His dad's a 'saleryman' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaryman) His life consists of work and of after work social climbing (wives and kids not invited) His mom's a housewife. That's a job in Japan. Husband and wife in Japan lead totally separate lives.
Hikaru was doing so badly in school his parents cut off his allowance; he went to his grandpa's attic to find something he could sell. Yes he was stealing and pulling Akari in with him, some friend!
Oh, heh, I know - my Japanese culture classes were a couple years ago but I haven't forgotten that much (I hope!).
I'm trying (and failing, probably) to keep my USian perspective out of my reading of Hikaru's family but even given the cultural differences - the lighter supervision and increased trust in a child's responsibility, the stricter division of time and stress of exams and homework (although Hikaru's still a year away from worrying about high school entrance exams), the saleryman father who's only home a couple of times a year, etc - things seem a little off.
If it is the third option Hikaru is awfully casual about it. There'd be more fallout if that were the case.
But it certainly throws some parallels to Death Note and Light into the mix.
Methinks Obata is the one who potentially has issues, and it bled over in HikaGo and is more deliberately portrayed in Death Note. Together with the mystery surrounding Ohba's identity, there's the possibility of collaboration or something else entirely. Even with Hotta doing the writing for the story, Obata does have some influence over things that happen/are shown.
I think the Dad is "just" distant and absent, as is often the case for a Japanese salaryman.
Meanwhile, it does go both ways, but we don't know, as you said, which came first. Still, Hikaru is the kid in the situation, something had to have made him act that way.
Like I said in an earlier post; this is not unusual behaviour for a Japanese family Kida are allowed to run free (see the converstation between Hikaru's grandpa and his mon, earlier) untill at a certain age they have to become an adult almost instantly.
Now Hikari is only 14 but Isumi is 17 and he's starting to feel this preasure and not much from now Nase will feel it to. This is NOT an 'oh I have to grow up sometime" preasure. This is a REAL preasure that is part of Japanese society.
Hmm, Ive pondered this a lot. Ochi is 12 and Isumi is 18. It seems unlikely that Ochi would be attempt to undermine Isumi psychologically. At least to start with, its kind of an accident after a remark he makes about Touya and all that's already in Isumi's head.
Then when he sees the result he starts to rub it in, which looks really evil.
I think it's because he's so self-focused. He wonders aloud to Isumi and doesn't really consider what he's doing there.
When it comes to psychological strength in a competition, the difference between 12 and 18 is not very big. Frankly I was more stable at 12 than at 16, though it went back up around 17 to 18. I've seen two 13-year-olds completely psych out the entire rest of the competition, even though in that instance they weren't even in competition with those of a different age.
I think he may be so self-absorbed and, frankly, cold-hearted, that even if he knew what effect his words were having, he probably wouldn't give a damn. Like, not that he'd intentionally do it more, but that he'd decide that's their weakness for getting psyched out. Survival of the fittest and all that.
He's being his normal insensitive unthinking self. The psych-out is an unexpected bonus. Isumi very easily unbalanced Ochi by telling him to shut up in that tone.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 08:32 pm (UTC)*When the pro exam participants were talking about the strain put on them by work, and school/university, and travel etc., I had to think that I'm not sure that I would do well in that general environment of stress.
I'm fairly certain that I would have had difficulties focusing myself enough to deal with getting into university without sliding into the lack of concern that is Hikaru's natural state of being.
I would have had anxiety issues en masse.
* I used to absolutely loathe Ochi, but with greater understanding of psychology (and kids in general), I just sort of want to give him a hug and tell him to simmer down.
He's so intense and takes everything very personally, a sure sign of immaturity.
Akira provides a great contrast to that, and I *do* think he's quite mature in a way, but a big part of his tolerance is his almost exclusive focus on igo and on Hikaru.
I used to know someone a lot like Ochi, and in a competitive environment I've unfortunately displayed some of his less charming traits myself. SIGH.
I was a kid, but still.
Psyching Isumi out was pretty evil though. I'm not even sure he fully understood what he was doing, he's so focused on himself.
* AAAAAH ISUMI. *pulls at hair*
* Oh the psychology of this is so interesting from both sides, aaaaah ... [I'm live commenting, can you tell? ^^]
* I'm probably reading too much into it, but I find Hikaru's relationship to his parents a bit troubling.
* Nope, Ochi definitely doesn't see the effect he's having. Boy needs some sensitivity training. Or training to hone that skill to psych people out, depending on the direction he wants to go.
* Whoo, an angry Isumi is an AWESOME Isumi.
* Ochi's family environment is clearly responsible for his attitude and the pressure he puts on himself. Brings back memories.
* NAAASEEE, YOU'RE MY FAVOURITE. (Sometimes. ^^)
*Aaaand now, one of my top favourite scenes in the entire series. *beams*
*deep sigh* OH AKIRA. WE ALL WANT TO KNOW.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 08:41 pm (UTC)* [nods] Japanese schools are already so stressful, especially for those studying for high school/college entrance exams. I can't imagine being an insei on top of it. Truly, Hikaru's couldn't-give-a-fuck attitude is the way to go.
* I want to give Ochi some cookies and maybe a trip to the spa - the poor kid is so intense and so self-focused. Hanging out with Hikaru would probably be good for him, if it didn't break his brain first.
* Isuuuuuuumiiiiiiiii
* We talked about Hikaru and his parents a post or so ago... he's so detached and uncommunicative and, I mean. Sometimes that happens! But they seem like decent people and he's 14, it makes me uneasy.
* Akira <3
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:14 pm (UTC)And they exhibit only very cursory efforts to find out. Certainly his dad never shows up, and his mom - I'm not a fan of hers.
She has shown a total lack of confidence in Hikaru, she doesn't know him *at all*.
It's like to her, he's an adult with a young adult's rights and the simplicity of thought and the emotional needs of a four-year-old, if that.
Hikaru grows up a lot in the course of the series, and it looks like his parents missed that happening.
It's like the idea that every teenager has, that their parents don't understand them, is explicitly true for Hikaru.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:32 pm (UTC)Its very understated but I don't think its an accident. This said, Sai's parenting skills are unlikely to be well developed or relevant to the 21st century.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 10:04 pm (UTC)I agree that it is highly likely a deliberate choice.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-23 08:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-07-24 04:40 am (UTC)I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 09:38 pm (UTC)It leaves me with a million questions:
* What does his dad do? What's he like?
* What does his mom do all day?
* Is this behavior new or was it in place before Hikaru started playing go?
* What came first, Hikaru's disinterest in his home life or his parents' hands-off approach to parenting?
We don't know much about Hikaru before he meets Sai - he's out of pocket money (allowance was cut off? I need to go back and check), he doesn't have many friends (he doesn't like Akari much, but she's the only one he spends any time with), he doesn't have any real drive or desires.
My first thought is that his Dad's a real asshole (but we don't get any concern from his grandfather?). My second is that Hotta wasn't interested in talking about his family life so we don't see much of it (but that kind of shoddy storytelling isn't like her). My third is that he's like someone I know, eternally punishing his mother for a past transgression (real or imagined) and resentful of his absent father.
I wish we had more to work with.
Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 10:10 pm (UTC)His life consists of work and of after work social climbing (wives and kids not invited)
His mom's a housewife. That's a job in Japan.
Husband and wife in Japan lead totally separate lives.
Hikaru was doing so badly in school his parents cut off his allowance; he went to his grandpa's attic to find something he could sell. Yes he was stealing and pulling Akari in with him, some friend!
Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 10:19 pm (UTC)Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 10:23 pm (UTC)I'm trying (and failing, probably) to keep my USian perspective out of my reading of Hikaru's family but even given the cultural differences - the lighter supervision and increased trust in a child's responsibility, the stricter division of time and stress of exams and homework (although Hikaru's still a year away from worrying about high school entrance exams), the saleryman father who's only home a couple of times a year, etc - things seem a little off.
Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 10:18 pm (UTC)But it certainly throws some parallels to Death Note and Light into the mix.
Methinks Obata is the one who potentially has issues, and it bled over in HikaGo and is more deliberately portrayed in Death Note.
Together with the mystery surrounding Ohba's identity, there's the possibility of collaboration or something else entirely.
Even with Hotta doing the writing for the story, Obata does have some influence over things that happen/are shown.
I think the Dad is "just" distant and absent, as is often the case for a Japanese salaryman.
Meanwhile, it does go both ways, but we don't know, as you said, which came first. Still, Hikaru is the kid in the situation, something had to have made him act that way.
Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
Date: 2010-07-14 10:25 pm (UTC)Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
From:Re: I'm working this out as I type, don't mind me
From:no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:52 pm (UTC)Kida are allowed to run free (see the converstation between Hikaru's grandpa and his mon, earlier)
untill at a certain age they have to become an adult almost instantly.
Now Hikari is only 14 but Isumi is 17 and he's starting to feel this preasure and not much from now Nase will feel it to.
This is NOT an 'oh I have to grow up sometime" preasure. This is a REAL preasure that is part of Japanese society.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 10:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:05 pm (UTC)At least to start with, its kind of an accident after a remark he makes about Touya and all that's already in Isumi's head.
Then when he sees the result he starts to rub it in, which looks really evil.
Or is it just his proud self?
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:22 pm (UTC)When it comes to psychological strength in a competition, the difference between 12 and 18 is not very big. Frankly I was more stable at 12 than at 16, though it went back up around 17 to 18.
I've seen two 13-year-olds completely psych out the entire rest of the competition, even though in that instance they weren't even in competition with those of a different age.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 10:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-07-23 08:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-07-24 04:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:54 pm (UTC)The psych-out is an unexpected bonus.
Isumi very easily unbalanced Ochi by telling him to shut up in that tone.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:11 pm (UTC)It was good to have some perspective on the insei by seeing the adults that were hoping to become pros. They seem pretty sheltered.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-07-14 09:47 pm (UTC)Of course Ochi suffer from his own deficienties sometimes; hence the wall tapping in the toilets.
Akira is just a littlebetter adjusted than Ochi,..